Lighting Equipment Suggestion - Page 2

**Florida Glamour Photography** · 01-31-2007, 07:15 PM

The word photography is defned by Webster's dictionary as "the art or process of producing images by the action of radiant energy and especially light on a sensitive surface (as film or a CCD chip)".

A wise man once told me, photogrpahers will spend a fortune on a camera body and lenes but "cheap out" on the lights. Since we are caputuring light with those expensive camera bodies, wouldn't it make sense to capture the best light possible?

I have been "stung" in the past; now I see the "light" with the help of more expensive and higher quality equipment. Incidentally, the "more expensive" equipment isn't reallt that much more.

**rolandogomez** · 01-31-2007, 09:33 PM

Ok, I just drove in after driving a four hour round trip to visit my ailing Mom, and also returned from Florida late Monday, so I'm tired but I will answer this before I get some rest tonight and promise my wife and family to stay off line for a bit...so let's get this straight, once and for all. I have nothing against the photographers that use AB's or WL's nor the owner of the company--he's been challenged to come here and discuss his products in support of people like you who own them, and so far has not appeared, though he's proven he's very aware of me and this site and what I feel about his products.

What I do not like, along with noted professionals in the photo industry like Philip Greenspan, is the "advertising tactics" that can be misleading and confuse consumers. So I'll break it down for you and everyone who doesn't get it--then I'll get some rest.

1. First, you are right, not even I would spend $5,000 on a two light kit. The Hensel 3-light kit, which includes THREE monolights of REAL 500 watt-seconds, a carrying case with pull handle and wheels, along with a 7 and 4-inch reflector, built in radio receivers in each head, four-channel frequency, REAL tungsten 300 watt modeling lamps, a soft box and (2) umbrellas and two stands sells at Samys.com for $1949, here's the link: http://www.samys.com/product_detail.php?item=4857 (and if you attend one of my workshops, you get a free 22-inch beauty dish that normally sells for $249). You can also purchase 2 light kits along with single units.

I might add, each head has a whisper quiet cooling fan, VISUAL accuracy adjustment with an LED display for 1/10th accuracy plus audio verification so when you adjust the 1/10th f/stop up or down from the radio remote unit you can hear it--and it auto dumps or up charges with an audio beep to let you know you are getting what you want. Each digit is 1/10th of an F/stop as you adjust the dial, no guess work involved. Each unit is MULTI-VOLTAGE for stablized color temparature as all electricity coming from any outlet plug will flucuate by the second from 105 to 125 volts which will affect color temperature in unstablized lights.

So here's the scenario, I have one light as main, one as a background and one as a hair light. Main light, channel (frequency) one, hair light, channel two, background light channel three. From the smaller than a Pocket Wizard remote control that turns on and off automatically, I can flip channels and change my lights up and down up to five whole f/stops in 1/10th accuracy without even walking to them, which works great for short people with hair lights higher than they can reach. If I'm curious, I can just glance at the back of the head and do a "visual" check of my settings. I NEVER have to re-meter as the lights auto upcharge or dump with audio verification to a 1/10th F/stop accuracy. What does this all mean, it means I work EFFICIENTLY and professionally.

TOTAL COSTS, 1500 Real Watt-seconds divided by $1949 EQUALS $1.29 per WS. If I elect not to purhcase the KIT, cost is $635 divided by 500 WS which EQUALS $1.27 per WS.

Now, let's compare with the White Lighting X800 monolight which is really only 330 REAL Watt-seconds NOT 800! It sells for $399 with

(a) NO LOCAL dealer support, if it breaks, ship it off for repair.

(b) NO Multi-Voltage (110 to 230V) stablization.

(c) NO UV coated flash tube which can effect the color of clothes and other fabrics and sometimes skin tone. WL will sell you a UV coated flash tube for an extra $34.95 The tube that comes with the unit gives 5600K the UV coated tube is 5200K.

(d) NO Quartz Halogen Tungsten modeling lamp, you get a household bulb

(e) NO built in radio receiver, it's optional at $39.95 for the transmitter and $39.95 for each receiver for EACH unit, so a 3-light kit means 3X costs.

On WL's own website, about their transmitters, "we have found the performance of our pioneer RR1 radio remote system has become compromised in certain user locations. Therefore we urge buyers of this system take advantage of our 60-day absolute satisfaction guarantee to determine the suitability of this product in their particular location." and they further state, "While we have undertaken a cooperative relationship with LPA - manufacturers of the Pocket Wizard, for the design of a 344MHZ LPA-compatible version of the RR1, we regret that LPA has been less than responsive at their end and that there are no immediate plans or schedule to bring an LPA-compatible version to market.

In the meantime, we have released our low cost RFT1 radio tripper system. These devices operate at 315MHZ and have proven quite reliable. However, the RFT1 system only fires lights remotely and does not allow remote adjustment of power levels or other parameters. Further, the RFT1 system has a shorter operating distance...."

(f) NO visual verification for 1/10th or anything up to 5 whole or fractional F/stops adjustment, you instead have a slider bar to "guess" what you are doing.

(g) no whisper quiet "continous cooling" fan, it only kicks in when the light overheats. Hmmn, reminds me of a radiator cap that bleeds antifreeze when a car overheats.

Now I'm sure there is more I could get into, but like I said, I'm planning family quality time tonight. So let's compare the costs of the WL800 with their own "true" or real wattseconds. $399 divided by 330 EQUALS $1.21.

So in SUMMARY, not even looking at all the "NO I got none of these nice perks to make me work more professional, more efficiently and accurately," for SIX PENNIES MORE per watt-second, or as some say, an educated and informed decision, I can have a professional upper-level unit with more power and more reliabilty and ALL THE PERKS!

Another way to look at this,

For a WL 800 at $399 you get 330 real watt-second power stripped of no multi-voltage, no radio control built in or with the light, no UV coated flash tube, and most of all, no local dealer support.

Now for another $235 dollars more for a Hensel (or for that matter other lights like ProFoto), you can get 500 real watt-seconds, German precision engineering (think a Ford Escape verses a Mercedez Benz), continuously fan-cooled, UV-coated flash tubes upfront, built-in radio receiver and transmitter included in all kit purchases, multi-voltage (110-230V) stabilization for accurate, consistent color temperature, a real quartz halogen (tungsten 3200K) modeling lamp at 300Watts that can be used for existing light, or "hot light" type lighting which we just did in Ocala for our recent workshop, 1/10th of a F/stop up to 5-full stops accuracy with audio and visual verification with LED display (numbers), etc., etc., you've heard it already.

Again, it's simple common sense and math, $1.21 for a good value or $1.27 for a GREAT value. I rest my case and yes, as long as WL and AB's are using consumer confusing terminology like "effective watt-seconds" I will not back off.

BTW--this past Monday after my weekend workshop where I taught 25 photographers in Ocala, FL, I sat down with a great photographer for private instruction in Tampa, she had WL's and when she saw and used my Hensel's she was ready to throw her lights in the garbage--TODAY she ordered Hensels after using them--she fell in love with not having to walk back to the light and slide the bar and remeter which she said it took her about three to four tries with her WL's each time with a customer waiting. She had used her WL's for four years and couldn't believe the difference. While she is an excellent photographer, she too admited that she had thought she was buying watt seconds based on what is stamped on the WL's housings, like 800, 1600, etc. BTW, her WL's are for sale, wonder what brings in more resale value, a Ford Escape or a Mercedez Benz?

Now please, I'm done with this, I will never purchase a WL or AB product nor would I ever recommend anyone purchase one and if they dropped their "effective watt seconds" sales pitch and labeled their lights like everyone else, with real watt-seconds, I'll stop talking about them.

Now, does this mean I think less of people using their products, simple answer, HECK NO! I've seen some great images produced by GREAT photographers who have used their lights. If you know what you are doing you can light an image with a $5 flashlight. I too can shoot great images with their lights because I have the technical knowledge and creative skill--their lights will not make my photography better, though they would certainly slow me down and I'd work less efficient.

(Photo below lit with a $120 home contraption made of florescent lights, 5000K bulbs)

Ok, let's get this straight once and for all..

dorbata · 01-31-2007, 10:30 PM

My prayers are with your mom.

Hensel lights seems the way to go. Should I get on location lights such as the Hensel Porty Premium or is there a way that I can use the Hensel Integra Pro lights with a battery pack? I'm a "newbie" on lights but I would love to learn more, I just don't want to learn by trial and error. Is there a book that anyone can refer me so I can read more about lights. I do have my heart set on Hensel, even before I created this thread.

Thanks

**mcherry** · 01-31-2007, 11:59 PM

I believe Hensel is coming out with a portable power unit for their monolights (I remember seeing one at PhotoPlus) but I have to tell you the new Porty Packs are sweet. I love my porty and will be adding another by spring. I have the AC adapter for it and can use it as a regular studio pack and do all the time with my other Hensel gear.

Everything Rolando said is right on the money. Since he has to be diplomatic in his response (and I don't) let me give you the unsugarcoated version. If you have $5k to spend on lighting and you invest in Bees, you're an idiot. They make a decent low-end light and if that's all some folks can afford, so be it. But lights, good lights, will last you a lifetime, invest in the right kit off the bat and you will grow with it over the course of your career.

While I like Hensel, if you are going to be supplementing the lights you own with additional rentals, you may want to look into ProFoto as every rental house carries an extensive inventory of their products. They also have arguably the best modifiers for shooting people, although I'm very happy with Hensel in that regard.

As far as light stands go, buy good heavy duty ones. Myself I prefer c-stands, but I come from a cinematography background and I'm used to them. For studio work, I would highly recomend them. For location work you can get folding stands (although c-stands with a turtle base break down and store flat) that are a bit lighter and yet still strong. Buy twice the amount of stand you think you will need - at least. I would actually recommend three times. This will allow you to place reflectors, flags, cutters/gobos, etc. where you want to shape the light.

Happy Shopping!

Matt

**mcherry** · 02-01-2007, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dorbata

My prayers are with your mom.
Is there a book that anyone can refer me so I can read more about lights. I do have my heart set on Hensel, even before I created this thread.

Thanks

The first two books you should get are Matters of Light and Depth and Light: Science and Magic. Read them each twice. L:S&M you may have to read three times. LOL! But if you use it as a text book, you will start to get somewhere. You may also consider John Child's Studio Photography, also a text book style book and a good one to work through. After you've read those get the book Film Art, An Introduction. This is for first year Film Majors (cinema) but will give you a good foundation in what dramatic lighting and shadow should look like and why it is used.

Once you get through these you should start to have a foundation on how light works. You can then look at some of the lighting cookbooks that are out there and there are tons of them. My favorites are the ones put out by Rotovision.

Regarding glamour books. I have them all. All of them. Every one. I like Rolandos there are one or two others, tops, that I think are decent. The rest all suck. Totally. In fact, I'm utterly amazed that these guys have written books. I actually sat down with a publisher of some of them and told them why. They laughed and said that guys just want to see naked chicks and this is an excuse. Nice.... Someday I'll write my own and someone else will tell me it sucks, but till then, I'd save your money. You'd be better off buying all of the hardcover Playboy books and a notepad and studying the images you see in great detail.

Now, on to learning how to control your fancy new lights. I've posted this before and am cutting and pasting it in here, so if it sounds a little weird, like I was actually talking to someone else, well, I was - but the principals are sound:

Don't start learning to light with a softbox. Start with one strobe, a BUNCH of c-stands, a diffusion panel (or three of various sizes, you can make them yourself), flags, whiteboard, reflectors, wooden clothespins, an assortment of gels, gaffer tape and a roll of cinefoil. With this set of basic tools you can do almost anything. No, you cannot achieve a playboy look with it, or other complex lighting setups, but you can do far more than you would imagine.

The reason I recommend this is that starting with a softbox does almost nothing to teach you about controlling light. Sure, you might learn how to use the softbox, where to place it, the inverse square law, how to feather it. But you are not really learning about controlling light, you are learning about controlling a softbox.

If you were to buy the materials I suggested you could build your own softbox in about fifteen minutes. You can diffuse light, bounce it, cut it snoot it, shape it, redirect it.... You get the idea. Other routes will have you taking better pictures faster. Mine will leave you a bit frustrated at first. But if you are someone who enjoys experimenting and mastering a craft, it is the only way to go. I guarantee you, if you work this through and learn to "see" light and make it succumb to your will, you can do anything...

**rolandogomez** · 02-01-2007, 12:19 AM

Thanks, and you might add, as a very successful photography workshop instructor, I'd never jeapordize my integrity for the sake of a sponsorship. If I'm sponsored by anyone, it's because I believe in their product and use it, not because it's my only sponsor. I'll never be a whore to any sponsor for the sake of sponsorship. You pay for what you get, even in workshops--always look at the credentials of the instructor. Thanks, off to spend time with my wife, rg sends! (grin)

**rolandogomez** · 02-01-2007, 12:25 AM

I will call you, if not I sent you my cell. Please keep in mind, I fly to Los Angeles to teach at Samy's Camera on Saturday and Sunday, so I fly on Friday, let's get in touch soon, thanks, rg.

R_Fredrick_Smith · 02-01-2007, 01:12 AM

And don't forget to also get a good heavy duty boom assembly as that will allow for immense creativity and is vital for many lighting effects.
Cheers,
rfs

**ChipBulgin** · 02-01-2007, 02:52 AM

You have indicated that you want to shoot a lot on location (away from electricity), but also want to build a studio space. It seems you want lights that perform equally well on battery and on AC. Since you intend to do a lot of location work, I would think you would want something lightweight, compact, portable, rugged, and integrated. Don't underestimate rugged. Traveling is hard on gear, so you want well-constructed components and accessories. And by integrated I mean that you want to minimize the number of connectors, wires, adapters, straps, etc. lying around. The system should mesh well.

Regarding battery-driven systems, pack and head systems are in general more compact and integrated than mono light systems so I'm going to focus my attention on those. Battery-powered mono light solutions are still a bit of a kludge. With pack and head systems, the batteries are interchangeable and fit right in the power pack. On a two-light system you end up with only 3 cables connecting everything together (one to each head plus the sync cord to the camera), and you can reduce that to 2 cables if you select a system that can be triggered wirelessly.

There are a few drawbacks to battery-driven systems. They are more expensive than AC systems, often carrying a premium of about 50%. The modeling lamps aren't nearly as bright as their AC counterparts, rarely exceeding 75 watts (vs. 250-300 watts for AC systems). Most packs only allow you to connect two heads to them (vs. 3 or 4 for AC systems). They also recycle more slowly, taking in the neighborhood of twice as long to recycle as an AC pack of similar capability from the same manufacturer. Finally, they don't run directly off of AC power out of the box. You typically get 150-250 full power flashes off of a single battery charge, so if you wanted to shoot in the studio all day you'd probably want multiple batteries. Several manufacturers offer AC power adapters for their battery-powered units, but they typically run around $1000 or more, adding further to the cost.

None of the above drawbacks really prevent you from having an extremely flexible system. Ignoring cost for the moment, the only real downside (in my opinion) to the battery-powered systems are the weak modeling lights. But in exchange you get a go-anywhere, anytime lighting solution. Taking all of the above into account, there are two manufacturers of battery-powered systems that would suit your needs: Profoto and Hensel. Assuming you wished to put together a two-light kit, consider the following:

Profoto:
Pro-7b 1200 W/S generator with (1) Pro-7b lamphead: $2900
(1) additional Pro-7b lamphead: $735
Universal Power Adapter (for use on AC): $1400
(2) Lightstands and case to hold the works: ~$350
Total: $5385
Total weight: ~57 lbs.
A comparably equipped AC-only Profoto kit (Acute 2R 1200) would run ~$3700.

Hensel:
Hensel Porty Premium 1200 W/S AS kit w/ 1 lamphead, wireless transmitter, lightstand, umbrella, softbox, extra battery and case: $3000
(1) additional 1200P flash head: $690
AC power supply: $965
(1) Additional lightstand: ~$60
Total: $4715
Total weight: ~46 lbs.
A comparably equipped AC-only Hensel kit (Vela 1500 W/S AS or PRO MINI 1200 AS) would run ~$3000.

There is an alternative way to go, and that would be to purchase an AC light kit and a battery system capable of powering it. This approach gives you the advantages of an AC pack (lower cost, faster recycle, brighter modeling lights, and capacity for 3 or more heads) and the flexibility of a battery at the expense of slightly less integration (you need to run a power cable from the pack to the battery). Dynalite makes a battery (the XP1100) that will handle power packs discharging up to 1000 W/S and provide ~200 full power flashes. The nice thing about this battery is that you get the same recycle time as you do when your AC pack is plugged in to the wall. Dynalite also makes really compact, lightweight, and rugged packs and heads. To that end, you might want to consider the following for a combination AC and battery-powered solution:

Dynalite M112W-PS kit: 1000 W/S pack w/radio receiver, (2) 2040 flash heads, stands, umbrellas, and case: $2285
Dynalite XP1100 battery and inverter: $1235
PocketWizard Plus II radio transceiver: $190
Total: $3710
Total weight: ~47 lbs (24# - kit / 23# - battery).

Any of these systems would provide you with a flexible and portable solution. You would still need to think about softboxes, speedrings, reflectors and such. Some of the above kits come with umbrellas and/or small softboxes. They're enough to get you going and keep the cost and weight down, but for shooting the glamour and casual work you're interested in you'd in all likelihood want to purchase larger softboxes and modifiers that give you a higher degree of control in shaping your light. But that's a discussion for a different post.

-Chip

johnrieger · 02-01-2007, 10:00 PM

I'm not going to promote any one brand - but for $5000, you can get a nice setup with many different systems - like Broncolor-Profoto-Elinchrom-Hensel-Calumet-Speedotron-and many others. As mentioned by alot of people in this post, this is a long term investment - so don't try go cheap just to get more items. It will only cost you more in the long run. Do your own research & see what works best for you. Every photographer has their own style & what works great for one photographer isn't always ideal for another. Remember there's alot that you'll need to go along with your lights & the list of brands for this is even bigger than the strobe manufacturers. Plume Wafers, Chimera, Red Wing, Photoflex & Westcott all have people that swear by their products. You are the only person that can really decide what is best for you. Research & research some more so you know what YOU want to buy... A great place to look where you can see alot of gear & specifications is the B&H Photo website - I'm not promoting them (even though I do order stuff from them) but it's a good place to look up products & get specs & features because they carry alot of brands. Have fun with your investment.

John
http://www.johnrieger.com/forum/tina1web.jpg
http://www.johnrieger.com