An observation and advice for new photographers and models to the forum

[kellyg]

Toni...this is so right on. Rolando should consider putting this on the top for awhile.

Thanks for taking the time to post this. You rock!
Kellyg

[Doug_Lester]

Speaking of "real world" critiques, many, maybe most here have never had the experience of presenting a portfolio or in the case of models, a comp card to a real world client, ad executive, art director or so forth. To be honest, with more than 10 years on the net and more thn 50 years in photography, I've rarely seen such brutal critiques on the net. Here are a few quotes which have stuck in my memory from past years. The comments about models were made in my presence and often in the model's presence, the comments about photographers were made to me about my work (And some wonder why I like bourbon so much!) I was sitting in front of the reviewer for each of these comments.
- "Well this sucks", as he tossed my portfolio toward as trash can.
- "Have you ever heard of actually controlling light?"
- "Did you use a K-Mart point and shoot camera for these?" (Shot with a 4x5)
- "You can go now. Next!"
- "What do these have to do with the pictures I need?"

For what it's worth, within 6 to 12 months, I ended up with assignments from each of those who made those comments.

About models:
- "Her nose, it's humongous!"
- "What with all that metal on her face, it's all I can look at! (about a small nose stud)
- "Your tits are enormous, like cows teat!" The model was standing in front of him.
- "You can't stand up straight, do you have a deformity in your back or are you just lazy?"
- Can you make your eyes bigger?"
-"That tattoo, were you a sailor or a marine?"

I could go on, but these are some "real world" examples
which make forum critiques seem gentle and kind. The moral; listen to the critiques and comments; ignore them or not, but understand and evaluate them. There is a reason they were made, they are someone else's observation of your work. Sometimes there is no basis in reality for the comments, but sometimes there is.

My place

[seekerofbeauty]

Toni ... you've just proved (if anyone doubted) that beauty and brains really go together. Add maturity and it's an unbeatable combination. For me, personally, you just joined Kelly and Jacki on my "A" list!. I know that's not one of your life's goals [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] but for me it's something! You couldn't have hit it better! Thanks for being!

[Brattitude]

[ QUOTE ]
For me, personally, you just joined Kelly and Jacki on my "A" list!

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Being acknowledged in the company of Kelly and Jacki is a huge thing. I'll take it [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Toni

[johnnyolsen]

my point exactly.
being famous on the internet is quite a concept. that and .$50 will get you a phone call. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[mphunt]

<center></center>

Pic posted out of habit. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

-mp

[jimmyd]

i think you just gave me a woody. oh, wait-a-minute.... nevermind, i forgot i left this tootsie roll in my pants' pocket. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[grsphoto]

[ QUOTE ]

I could go on, but these are some "real world" examples
which make forum critiques seem gentle and kind.

[/ QUOTE ]


I have never understood this attitude or reasoning for being rude or obnoxious ( I am not talking about you Doug )

Yes the real world is tough, because it is full of real world egos and real world money were real world jobs and real world lives are dependent on real world results.

Forums, like this one, are set up for enthusiast, people who are discovering the joy of photograpy and are excited about the images they created. They will likely never recover the cost of their equipment, let alone make a living at taking pictures. And most of them don't care.

Why should critiques of images not be gentle and kind ? You can help someone develop into just as good a photographer by being nice to them as you can being a jerk.

Were is it written that you have to be subjected to ridicule every time you post an image?

I think one of the reasons things get out of hand here sometimes is that rudeness seems to be encouraged instead of discouraged.

grs

[Doug_Lester]

Good question and I don't really have an answer to the rudeness involved in the industry. Part of the answer probably has to do with the big egos you mentioned, just because they 'can'. But another part of it is simply calousness. They have so many models and photographers coming to them that they often lose patience, viewing us as commodities. Some of it is probably just expediency, as they review so many books and comps that they often see those reviews as interuptions in their very busy schedules, but sometimes it's just to make a point.

In the case in which the art director who told me, "Well this sucks", as he tossed my portfolio toward as trash can, he was making the point that the images wre worthless to him as they were not images which told him how I could help him and I was wasting his time. The images were good, in fact excellent, but not the sort of images he needed. Months later I had another portfolio review with him. In the second one, he flipped through my book, handed it back to me saying "OK". Within a couple of months after that, I began getting assignments from him.

Don't misunderstand though, all are not like that. Some can be quite helpful on occasion, but they often have hundreds of books/comps to review in a limited amount of time and in between other duties. Another guy went through my book and made comments on each image, asked me questions about my studio set up and offered me a number of tips and suggestions. I should note however, that was during a scheduled lunch meeting and two or three adult beverages, which I bought. From him, I got good a good deal of time, some excellent suggestions, but no work.

[Driftwood]

As a newbie here I have to say that I identify closely with what you say, particularly about your approach when first joining the site.
I despise rudeness in any form, and at the moment I am trying to strike a balance between joining in with the activities of the forum and not appearing to be too opinionated.

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I wish the newbies would show respect first, learn, contribute to discussion and critique later.

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Now you've made me nervous!
I have offered critiques already on a couple of images that were posted in the "Photo Reviews and Critiques Forum", but did feel a little nervous about doing so. The thing is, how do I know when I've been here long enough to be able to critique?

I think we all have opinions about art, whether or not we know how to produce it ourselves. So should we critique or not?

I guess for us newbies that getting that balance wrong (in either direction) could well be the difference between those that stay with the site and those that fall by the wayside.

Hope I'm not getting off-balance here. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]